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Apr 04, 2025 Web Exclusive By Kyle Mullin

“Yes, Tom [Petty] was not a perfect person. Neither am I. Neither are you, you know,” guitarist Mike Campbell says, a bit testily, during a recent phone interview about his new memoir Heartbreaker.

The autobiography first recounts how early classic rock radio, and the cheap guitar his mother managed to buy him, gave Campbell emotional refuge during his impoverished childhood. Then the evocative yet conversationally written prose turns to Campbell’s fateful meeting with would-be rock star Tom Petty, their humble beginnings in Gainesville, Florida, the chart topping hits they recorded throughout the ’80s, and the tensions they overcame even though so many other big bands succumb to splitting up. It was by no means always easy, because Campbell admits in the book that much of Petty’s—and their band The Heartbreakers’—success was due to him being headstrong.

Clearly still grieving Petty’s 2017 passing, Campbell tersely—but understandably—defended his friend and bandmate when asked by Under the Radar about the parts of his memoir that described how, to paraphrase one of their biggest hits, Petty stubbornly stood his ground and wouldn’t back down. However, Campbell was otherwise warm and thoughtfully reflective throughout our Q&A as he recalled being the introverted yin to Petty’s outspoken yang, becoming more of an open book (in every sense of the word) in recent years, and meeting and working with heroes like Bob Dylan and George Harrison, all of which you can read about below.

Kyle Mullin (Under the Radar): I love in the book’s preface where your wife says you’ve suddenly become chatty in your “old age,” especially about your career. So, when you did press back in the day with Tom, was it harder to open up?

Mike Campbell: Well, I like being chatty as long as I don’t wear out my welcome. I don’t know, I just seem to have more confidence in myself. I’m not afraid to open my mouth anymore.

And that wasn’t the case when you worked with Tom?

To some extent. I was basically more insecure and quiet when I was younger. And Tom was such a great leader. It was easy to be quiet around him.

Did you find a lot of joy in uncovering old memories while writing this book? Because there’s a lot of detail there. I was amazed that you could remember things so vividly.

Yeah, I had a lot of joy. And it was interesting because a lot of the stuff I thought I didn’t remember was stuck in my brain somewhere. As I started talking to [co-author] Ari Surdoval—who is a great guy—all these things started coming up. He would just listen to me, then write it into a form that you could read it. When I shared those memories with him it was sometimes joyful. But it was also sad and a little emotional here and there. But overall, I felt very pleased to look back and see what a charmed life I’ve had.

Yes, reading about those early days in the book’s first few chapters, it seemed quite bittersweet. Especially all the evictions that you and your mom went through, and not having enough money for either milk or for her cigarettes. But then she got you a guitar, and it unlocked so much happiness for you. Like when you learned the “miserable F chord,” even though it cramped your left hand.

Well, there’s something about the guitar that’s very magical. It was a conduit for me to joy and confidence, and I just loved it so much. When I got the guitar, I lost interest in everything else. No sports, nothing really. I was just so absorbed in the guitar, trying to learn it. I felt like I found my calling.

Was it also a way to cope with the hard times you were having?

Absolutely. And to this day, if I’m ever feeling confused or sad or whatever, I can go to the guitar and play. It’s like therapy for me. It makes me feel centered and in contact with some kind of higher, beautiful power. It can take me out of my darkness and make me feel better.

It sounds like listening to the radio did the same thing for you as a kid in a family that was just scraping by. I like when you write about The Beach Boys and The Beatles coming from a magical place of sweet harmonies. But when you heard Bob Dylan for the first time, he was different and felt like he was “in the room with you.” Did you ever tell him how special he was to you? Because you and Tom spent quite a bit of time with him, writing hits like “Jammin’ Me,” right?

Good question. I told Bob I thought he was amazing. But I never had an emotional, like, “Oh, you mean so much to me,” moment. I think that he gets a lot of that. I didn’t want to come across as a crazy fan. He is quite a hero of mine, but once I got to be around him a little bit, that relaxed. Then we were just two musicians communicating through music.

I’ve been starstruck by so many people in my life that I looked up to. Bob, George Harrison, Roy Orbison, Jeff Lynne. Johnny Cash. So many people that crossed my path who were influential to me as a musician, as a person. Yeah, I get starstruck just like anybody else.

Meeting George must’ve been amazing, considering how you listened to The Beatles so much as a kid. I loved getting a more intimate look at him and the other Beatles in Get Back a few years ago.

It was special, meeting George. I do love The Beatles. They had a huge influence on my life and my music. And I love that documentary. It was nice to see them kind of like a fly on the wall, and see the joy and the tension. I mean all bands are like that. Bands are very delicate entities. But The Beatles’ music was so strong. Then, as you said, later on I did get to know George a little bit. I realized what a beautiful person he is.

You mentioned bands are delicate. What are the pros and cons of that, especially in your experience?

Four or five guys, with the shared vision of making music together—it’s the best thing ever. That’s why I’ve always wanted to be in a band, because there’s something magical about sharing the moment with guys who have the same dream as you.

Having said that, each individual has their own ego and point of view and their own feelings. And like in a marriage, sometimes there’s friction and sometimes you disagree. Maybe sometimes you argue, and you work through it for the good of the music. The music always comes first. Sometimes you can get stuck in egos or whatever. But with Tom and The Heartbreakers, we always loved the music so much that nothing would get in the way of it.

In the book you mentioned that sometimes Tom could be a bit hard on others, because he was able to withstand pressure really well. And then afterwards he’d reflect and be hard on himself. What was it like to realize that about him?

Yes, Tom was not a perfect person. Neither am I. Neither are you, you know.

Tom was my closest friend, more than a brother. And I understood him. He understood me.

He had a toughness and a drive and a determination to get what he wanted in a certain situation, whether it might be with a record company exec or a musician. Tom was very forceful, and that’s what made him a great leader. You know, every band needs somebody who has that drive, who will push, you know, and speak for the good of all. Tom was like that. But you have to be strong and sometimes a little edgy, maybe even ruthless to fight for what you believe in. We were lucky to have someone in the band like that.

Another attribute he had—which really comes across in the book—was his belief in you, and what you guys could achieve.

Yeah, aside from my wife, Tom was the closest human being in my life. We had a deep love and respect for each other. He saw in me something that helped him get there, and I saw in him something that helped me get there. And through the years, that bond and that love carried us through. We were able to do great things, probably better than we would have done on our own. The bond and the partnership was really special.

Is there a particular memory that you enjoyed writing about in the book where Tom overcame a challenge with the determination you were describing?

We had a manager negotiating a record deal with one of the companies, I forget which one. He got a certain amount of money for the deal, and he was all proud of himself.

Tom looked at it and said, “No, double it.”

The manager said: “They’re not going to go for that.”

And Tom goes: “I don’t care. Double it anyway. Tell them that’s what we want.”

And sure enough, he was right. They came around to his way of thinking, and he got his way. He wasn’t going to be pushed around by the man. That was a quality. He had leadership and power and personality to convince people that he was right.

In the midst of that, were you worried at all?

No, I knew Tom well enough, even from back in Gainesville, that he had a way of getting through and getting things to happen. I always felt like he had control over the situation, and he was going to make the best decision. Ninety nine percent of the time, he was right.

You guys were fortunate to have each others’ back. How rare is that? Showbiz is notoriously ruthless, after all.

It’s a miracle, really, that Tom and I found each other and that we went as far as we did with our dream. We stayed together right to the end, when he could have gone solo or whatever, or I could have done something else. But we stuck it out, and I’m really proud of that because we had a very special bond. Why? I don’t know. It’s just a matter of luck and destiny, but we were in the right place at the right time to find each other.

So you serendipitously found each other, and started off playing places like topless bars. You wrote about how the audiences there would throw cigarettes and beer cans at you. Was that as much of a trial by fire as it sounds like?

You raised a good point. I think the book illustrates that being a successful band, like we were, is not easy. It was not handed to us. We put our whole life on the line for many years because we believed in our music. And we had no guarantee that it was going to be successful. But fortunately it was. We worked a long time for many years, sleeping on mattresses and traveling in vans, running out of gas in the snow. A lot of work went into that, and a lot of commitment. When things got bad, we could have walked away, but we stuck it out. And it wasn’t easy at times. But if you believe in something strong enough, I guess in our case anyway, dreams can come true.

Speaking of dreams coming true: you start the book off with your and Tom’s final show, at the Hollywood Bowl. You mentioned looking into the crowd and seeing tears in people’s eyes, and many of them singing along to every word. Do you have a favorite Heartbreakers song that gets a reaction like that, that is a dream come true for audiences to see live?

There are so many songs in our catalog. It’s hard to describe to someone who hasn’t stood on that stage, and felt that love from that many people rushing over you. It’s like a wave knocking you off. It’s a magical thing, that you can’t really get anywhere else in life. It’s a buzz, a high, a spiritual joy. And that’s why we kept doing it, because there’s nothing like it.

So a lot of songs come to mind. But I guess the most important one right now, in my mind, is “American Girl,” which is one of our first songs. All through our career, every time we would play that song, I would feel that rush of adrenaline. As if it was the first time I heard it. It always had this power to it. It connected with people. And that night at the Hollywood Bowl, that was the last song we played, and I felt it then. So did Tom.

Did you have a song that was really challenging to work on in the moment, and then you had a breakthrough and it ended up becoming a huge hit and beloved?

The hardest one probably was “Refugee.” It was so easy to write. But when we went in the studio, under the microscope with the producer and everything, trying to make it great, it took a lot of work. We just couldn’t get it to come together for so many takes. I found myself thinking: “Maybe we’ll never get this.” But we kept trying, because we had a demo that was really good. So it kind of pushed me to my limit of frustration. But once again, I just believed in it and kept working, kept my head to the grindstone, and eventually we got it.

After going through something like that, it’s a beautiful thing when a stranger comes up to you, and they tell you how your music has made their life happier. For instance, I’ve had several people tell me they played “Here Comes My Girl,” which is a song I wrote with Tom, at their wedding because it was that important to them. When someone shares that kind of joy with you, or when someone just tells me a certain song of ours lifted their spirits… I mean, what more could a person want?

And now you might get compliments like that for your book, not only for your music. How exciting is that?

Well, hopefully people have a good reaction to the book. I’m very proud of it. If you like our band, it’s a good look into the inner workings of a career that had a very happy ending, until Tom passed away. The music grew over decades, and we were able to keep it together. So the book is a testament to those years and those struggles and those joys. It’s kind of emotional in places. You know, it got me a little emotional reading it. And I hope I communicated that to people.

Tough as that can be, it sounds like it was valuable for you.

Absolutely. It was very cathartic and emotional. I felt, as I went back through the years—and it’s been many years—I was kind of astonished at how many beautiful things have come to me over this career. The people I’ve met, and experiences I’ve had, and all that we accomplished. So the book kind of made me feel old, because it has many years of stories. But I also felt very gratified that I’ve had such a blessed life.

(Heartbreaker: A Memoir by Mike Campbell and Ari Surdoval is out now by Grand Central Publishing.)

www.tompetty.com

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