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Sep 12, 2024 By Dom Gourlay Web Exclusive

Humanist, the solo project of highly respected guitarist, songwriter and composer Rob Marshall released their second album On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World in July of this year. The follow-up to 2021’s self-titled debut, On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World features a number of guest collaborators (as with its predecessor) such as Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode), Peter Hayes (Black Rebel Motorcycle Club), Isobel Campbell and James Allan (Glasvegas).

Next month (October) sees Humanist embark on their second headline tour after recent dates supporting Depeche Mode around Europe then Jane’s Addiction in the UK. So, Under the Radar decided now was as good a time as any to catch up with Rob Marshall about the new record, loss, collaborations and future plans for Humanist.

Dom Gourlay (Under the Radar): When did you start writing the songs that became On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World?

Rob Marshall: I got the first track together with Carl (Hancock Rux), which is “The Beginning”, and then I got the last track. So, once I had the bookmarks in “The Beginning” and “The End” – which is how the last record started as well – I started to go through that same process again. A lot of it was written during the pandemic lockdown. I’d just finished the first Humanist record, then all the live dates I had got totally squashed. Any dates for Europe were thrown out the window, festivals as well. The nine UK dates I did have got rearranged four times. It was a black hole that I was throwing money into. Rehearsals kept stopping and starting. In the end I thought this was impossible. I’d just done Somebody’s Knocking with Mark Lanegan at the same time, so when the pandemic kicked in I was pretty burned out anyway. I was always writing for Lanegan, and because he was always there and a constant in my life. We’d be sending each other music that we’d got, so there was always a reason for me to get up and keep doing stuff which kept me quite prolific. So, during lockdown I kept on writing and slowly but surely, a new record started to form. It was a little bit all over the place, and then once Mark had passed it became much more focused because in a way I had Mark as my safety net, and I had to turn my attention back to Humanist.

Is it a concept album as it feels like it could be in some ways?

I don’t like the term “concept” because it’s normally associated with Yes or some kind of prog rock record. But then in a way it kind of is. With the first track being “The Beginning” and the last one being “The End”, On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World brought out all these themes of death. I’ve always found whatever’s happened in my life always comes out in the music. So it is slightly conceptual in that it’s a reflection of where I’ve been over the last two or three years. It wasn’t consciously that, but it is about life and death in a very gentle and subversive way.

Mark Lanegan’s passing must have come as a real shock to you, having got to know him personally as both a work colleague and a friend. Did his passing change your outlook on writing this record?

100%. It changed things massively for me. I got diagnosed with cancer during lockdown. I’m totally fine now, but that was obviously a big deal for me at the time. When anything like that happens in anybody’s life it shakes your ground a little bit. You start to think about mortality, so that was running parallel to Lanegan’s passing. Then a few months later, one of my best friends from school where I grew up passed away through cancer. All these ground shaking events one after the other, on top of what was a very unusual time during lockdown. Life felt very alien, and whatever I’m feeling at the time comes out in the music. All those reflections come in through in those tracks. A song like “The Immortal” for example. This kind of simmering darkness there, and anybody that works with me is able to tap into that mystical energy. The intent of the track and style of where its going. I had the title very early on as well. I’ve had the title for a couple of years. That felt very connected to the time as well, and reflective and very real to me. Once you’ve got a title which feels that profound, and has the artwork as well along with a few key tracks, the DNA is already down. People know where they have to go with it themselves. I don’t really need to direct much with that. It’s a pretty unspoken but known place.

Some of the collaborators off the first album are here too – Dave Gahan and Carl Hancock Rux being two. But there’s also a host of new ones on this record as well such as Isobel Campbell and Peter Hayes. How did those collaborations come about?

Isobel (Campbell) actually lives in the same town as me. A friend introduced us to each other and we swapped numbers. We spoke about doing a track together before Mark (Lanegan) passed – Isobel knew I’d collaborated with different people. Obviously when Mark passed that brought us closer together. Isobel was the first person I spoke to on the phone literally half an hour after I found out. We were messaging back and forth then we ended up speaking, so that grew quite naturally. On the first record, I had a billboard in Los Angeles like I have on this one. It was in Echo Park, and it was near where Leah Shapiro and Peter Hayes from Black Rebel Motorcycle Club lived. Leah just really liked the record and reached out to me on social media and said Peter really loves the record too. It started this communication and we began talking on the phone then essentially we started swapping bits of music with each other. We almost started a little bit of a side project. We were throwing six or seven pieces of music back and forth. Throughout that whole process, “Born To Be” came about which is one of the tracks I put aside for Humanist and Peter ended up singing on it which became part of this album. I continued doing stuff with Peter and Leah, one being the Jeffrey Lee Pierce Sessions Project which is a tribute record. There’s loads of people on the album – Blondie and Nick Cave, people like that. I know the person that organized the record and she asked me to be a part of it. I love Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, especially that first album, and Peter is such a nice guy as well. One of the things I love is when you end up working with someone you really respect and they turn out to be really good people. It’s such a heartwarming thing. Peter and Leah are both lovely people so I’m super proud of that collaboration. I’m really proud of that track as well (“Born To Be”) because it’s the centerpiece of the record. In a way, it’s one of those songs that could pass you by because its not in your face but it has so many layers and Peter’s vocals on it are just insanely good.

The reception from both music critics and fans alike has been overwhelmingly positive so far. Was that something you expected?

It’s incredible! I’ve had so many private messages from people saying how much they’re enjoying the record. It’s so humbling. People saying things like, “I can’t believe how good this record is.” It blows me away that stuff because when I’m doing it for myself I don’t care if anybody else likes it. But then once the record is out there, I worry about whether people will like it. The reception has been unbelievable. I’d like to think that within the context and depths of the music there’s a little piece of my spiritual soul. Rightly or wrongly, I feel that I’m trying to be as real and honest and decent a human being as I possibly can. Whatever’s going on in my life at the time, it pours into the notes and chords and melodies of the music that I make. So, I’d like to feel that is what connects people who are listening to it. That there’s something tangible they can tap into.

Your reputation as a guitarist, musician and songwriter has grown immeasurably since the first Humanist record. That must be quite rewarding?

What an honour it is for me to work with people that I love and respect. I work with people that I look up to. These are the dream people I want to work with. I think Exit Calm had a bit of that as well. We were always well respected and loved by other bands and musicians. I don’t know why that is? I’ve never quite got an understanding on that yet but its definitely true. But what an honour it is to work with people like Peter (Hayes), Dave (Gahan) and Mark (Lanegan). Mark gave me so much belief in myself. He really believed in me.

I guess the flipside of that is that people are now queuing up to work with Rob Marshall?

It is an honour. I don’t take this stuff for granted. I’ve been doing it for a long time so it’s incredible to finally get some recognition. Life is short. Who knows what’s around the corner? Everything that’s happened over the past couple of years has told me to just do the best you can and be respectful of the people you’re working with because you don’t know where tomorrow might lead.

You’ve recently supported Depeche Mode on tour as well as collaborating with Dave Gahan on both records. Do you think that working relationship is something which will continue in the future?

I never plan anything. It has to be natural and organic. Right now, my head is totally focused on being the best guitar player I can be live, and really making the live show phenomenal. I just let the music lead where its going. I’d love to work with Dave (Gahan) again at some point. He’s an amazing singer with such an incredible voice. Everything that Dave does when he sings, he makes it sound so expensive. The track (“Brother”) was fully formed when it was written, but when I sent it to Dave it was in a demo state. To me it sounded like a demo, then as soon as Dave’s voice went over the top it sounded as if it had been recorded at Abbey Road! At that point, once I’d started layering all the guitars on top of it and replacing the programmed drums with live ones, it just snowballed. It became the beast it is today. It’s all about the bursts of energy I try to bring to my music. It’s the same with that “Born To Be” chorus. It’s such a burst of euphoria. But Dave is such a normal guy to work with. I don’t know what the future holds in terms of that but it certainly wouldn’t be something I’d ever turn down.

Were there any other songs written around this time that didn’t make the album and if so, will you be revisiting them in the future?

There’s a couple of tracks – I don’t want to say that didn’t make the record because that’s not how it works for me. I love every track I work on. But there has to be a thread that feels right throughout the record, so there are some tracks that I will be revisiting. Some are collaborations with people already singing on them.

Have you started writing for the next record or even thought about the direction that might take?

In terms of writing right now, no. Once I’ve finished a record I put my writing hat down. I always need to have a break or I’ll end up repeating myself. I am thinking about it. There’s a feeling growing but it’s not tangible at the moment. It hasn’t revealed itself yet. I want to break into another energy if that makes sense, because these two records feel as if they’re somehow connected.

On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World definitely has links to the first record sonically, if not lyrically. But at the same time it’s clearly a progression from its predecessor. Was that something you were conscious of when putting this album together?

Towards the end I started to realise the connection, especially if you look at the artwork. There’s definite similarities. They’re like a brother or sister to each other. I feel like its out of my system now, whatever that was. I never want to repeat myself and I don’t think this record is a repeat of the first. It feels like a growth, but at the same time I want the next record to have a completely different energy to the first two. I want to give this album a chance to get out and play live because I didn’t really get that opportunity with the first record.

Do you have a list of collaborators you’d like to work with in the future?

With collaborations, sometimes it works when you reach out to people and other times it doesn’t. Sometimes life gets in the way, particularly whatever’s going on in other peoples (collaborators) lives. Sometimes people are overwhelmed and they’ve got too much on so you don’t become a priority. Other times you might happen to catch someone perfectly at the right time and they’ll agree to do it. It’s all just about timing and what’s going on in people’s lives. I never think anybody is unattainable. Because if the music’s good enough that’s the only thing anybody should answer to.

The line-up for your live band has changed since the shows for the first album. Will this be your regular band going forwards or will the musicians and vocalists be interchangeable from tour to tour as well?

I like the idea of it being interchangeable, more with the vocalists. But I do feel like I’ve found the right musicians. Scott (Pemberton, drums) has been with me forever. I’ve got a bass player now called Wendy Rae Fowler and she’s brilliant. She just clicks and fits in with everything we’re doing. Wendy’s got an amazing attitude as well. She just fell into the band at the right time and her energy, enthusiasm and lust for it all just gels. Whatever it is, it works. The vocalist on this tour is a guy called Jimmy Gnecco, who toured with us on the Depeche Mode and Jane’s Addiction dates. He was great. It’s starting to feel a little like Bauhaus or something similar. I mean that as an energy. You had to be there in the room with us for that to be fully realized. The live thing is slightly different to the records, as you know with everything I’ve ever done. Whether that be Lyca Sleep, Exit Calm or Humanist, I’ve never tried to recreate the records live. I’m just trying to get hold of an energy and transfer it. That’s all I ever want to do.

Will the live set be a mix of both albums, predominantly material off On The Edge Of A Lost And Lonely World or even a few new songs?

It will mainly be material from both albums. I don’t think there will be any new songs. I might drop in one or two Lanegan tracks that we co-wrote together. So, predominantly both records. For me, the live concept is so important. It’s life changing. I remember going to see The House Of Love at the Roundhouse a few years ago when Terry Bickers was playing with them and there was this one track they played called “Road” and Terry just went from this statuesque figure and turned into this monster that started bouncing and charging across the stage. I swear, my hairs just stood up! It probably lasted thirty seconds but that moment has never left me since that happened. I think about it all the time. That is everything to me because it’s life changing. Just seeing moments like that is a reminder of how special live music is. I used to feel like that every time I saw Killing Joke as well. The way Geordie (Walker) and Jaz (Coleman) would come out. Just watching Jaz – he was like a God! Their music was so powerful. If you’re in a band and able to transfer energy like that, it’s eternal. One of the best live bands I’ve ever seen. It’s such a shame I’ll never get to see them again.

You’ve also toured with Jane’s Addiction this year. How did that come about?

So basically, Perry (Farrell) and Etty (Lau Farrell) are friends with Wendy (Rae Fowler), and they were watching some live clips of us on tour with Depeche Mode and I think Perry just said let’s get them on tour. It really was that direct, which in itself is just amazing! There’s a history there with Perry’s wife and Wendy but you don’t get asked to do these things if you’re not good enough. I’ve been in the industry long enough to know that it doesn’t matter who you know unless you’re doing something right that’s connecting with somebody. Nobody helps anybody in this industry. It’s brutal.

Since Covid and Brexit it’s become even harder for bands to make a living from music and tour without any hassle. Has that had an impact on Humanist as well, particularly the expense of touring and playing live?

With the first record it was just impossible. I’d just got a publishing deal at the time and blew the entire budget more or less just on keeping the studio going and rehearsing. We kept stopping and starting so many times because the tour was constantly being cancelled. So, I want to tour this record a lot more. I’ll do whatever I can to make opportunities happen and push it as far as I can because I believe in it, and I believe in the band that I’ve got, the music, and hopefully the team I’ve got around me. The first tour is in October but it certainly won’t be the last.

Are you playing any festivals this year, or is that on the agenda for 2025?

I missed the boat this time around as most festivals tend to start booking at the back end of the year. Unfortunately the record wasn’t ready in time – well it was – but Bella Union had issues with the distribution so we had to put the release date back a little bit. But hopefully we’ll be playing a few festivals next year. I wouldn’t mind getting on some European ones and we’re trying to get into the States as well. There’s talk that might possibly happen. We’re doing it quite old school really when bands used to put a record out then go on tour for two years. I’m not sure I could go on tour for two years but I’m certainly going to give it the best push I possibly can and I want that to leak into next year

What advice would you give someone that’s just starting out now as a musician or band, in a post-Covid, post-Brexit landscape? What would you tell them to do? What would you tell them to avoid?

If you know what it is that you’re wanting to achieve and you feel it’s the right path you should be on, don’t ever venture away from it. Don’t ever listen to anybody else. If you really believe in what you’re doing just stick to your guns. Also, don’t expect anything from it. The biggest reward is in the music itself. Mark Lanegan told me that over and over again. If you can grasp that concept you’re going to be alright. For me, music is about achieving and making the best thing that I could possibly make at that point in my life. It’s the same with this record. Is this the best I could have done? Could I have made it any better? As long as you’re doing the best you can at that moment in time I think that’s enough.

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